Really?

In what year did AS3X come out? Was it in 2011?

In what year did the first mikado v-bar system come out?

 

Exactly right @HungryHungryHippos. Even if Vbar was not for masses at 470, anyone could have brought another gyro with different features for less. But the clone makers stole what was selling well - even with the high price tag - and released it for practically nothing. Why did they not copy something else? because nothing else was that good.

But anyway many clones use cheap materials, bubbles in castings etc. I think the assault 700 has a reasonable rep but forget the rest.

 

Do you realize what sort of clone the chinese will be able to build now with that super computer? OMG

 

Fun part is to do homework and discover what is good. In case of clone you can still use crucial original parts but also have access to cheap clone parts.

Some of them are much better than original e.g. HK600GT OWB is much cheaper and stronger than Align 600 OWB Made in Germany.

 

Clones have their place. Albeit they can be dangerous, there are some really good ones out there. The original Align Trex 450X was hotly disputed as being a Raptor knock off, as well as utilizing designs pioneered by Bergen. Now they are one of the most well known names in the hobby; famous and infamous. They even spawned their own clone company (Tarot). Tarot parts used to be made in the same factory in Taiwan as OEM replacement parts with lesser finish machining (Read that as factory seconds sold off to distribution houses). They then moved to Shenzen and became their own company producing OEM and Upgrade type parts. They also make parts for other "Clone" manufacturers (ALZRC, VWINRC, VCTRC). Rumor has it (and I stress Rumor) That some of Tarot may have split off to become GARTT. If you look at GARTT and CopterX, their parts are nearly identical in make and quality on some Models. CopterX is famous for low quality Trex clones, but they actually did turn that into their own designs with the Black Angel line.

Align Helis are the most cloned helis out there. Especially the 450 and 500 class designs. There are good, bad, and horrible clones out there. There are also newer designs being spawned from existing models. There is always going to be the fly-by-night upstart in it to make a quick buck. However, some of the clone manufacturers out there start making clones so they can improve on the design. Some of it is to fill a need, and some of it is to prove they can make it in a very competitive market. But people tend to forget that Align started out as a "clone".

Do I condone it when a machine or component is cloned? No. Do I feel a twinge of guilt when I purchase a clone part? Yes, to a point. The "you get what you pay for" quote is definitely a factor, however it does fill a space in the market.

Being one of many that learned the hard way about clones, I am indifferent. My very first heli was a Mall copter coaxial special that was a knockoff of a Syma S103. My first CP heli was a Hausler 450P (Trex 450 SE V2 clone), that I upgraded with parts from Align and Tarot. My next was a CopterX 450 Pro clone that I upgraded with Align and Tarot parts. I then bought a Trex 450 Pro V2, and built a Trex 500ESP from parts (all Align) that I bought from various sources around the internet. That led to me actually going to IRCHA Jamboree, and being turned on to TSA. I bought a TSA 600E Platinum, flew it for a few weeks, then sold it off to a friend. Now I own a Rush 750 Evo, An Align Trex 500 Pro, A Forza 450, A second TSA 600E, and I am looking at a Thunder Tiger E700.

I've pretty much left the clone stuff behind, because I truly did spend a lot more money replacing parts on the clones as I did on the higher dollar "real" models.

Cloning is a double edged sword. Sure, it drives up costs on the real deal due to legal battles (it's not free to take someone to court over copyright and patent disputes). However, it does drive innovation. Someone copies your idea but improves on it? Make something better. However, making something better costs more, so prices go up. It's the nature of business.

Look at how many companies had a great thing going but little exposure to mass markets, or couldn't survive because the cost of production outweighed niche market sales. Or just folded under their own weight? Miniature Aircraft, and Mars/Poseidon come to mind here, as well as Gohbee. There are scores of others here, but the point is, clones can't be blamed for everything.

If it weren't for clones, I wouldn't be posting here.

 

Great perspective @Powerdyne

 

Example of clone performance:

 

Couldn't answer my question of when the V-bar was released and when the AS3X was released?

AS3X , 2011.

V-bar, 2006.

Is the AS3X used on helicopters like
- Thunder tiger
- Hirobo
- Mikado
- JR
- Align
- Synergy

No, its only used on blade helicopters.

So I don't know where you got this ridiculous idea of the AS3X being the first mass consumer flybarless system from?

 

Masses fly $40 ZYX not $240+$40 for PRO Vbar.

Vbar clones <$30 were the game changer.

You can not ignore facts.

FBL started gaining popularity around 2012 after ZYX was released.

Align released FBL heads around 2011.

 

@Powerdyne's perspective is polar opposite to mine, clones nearly made me give up before I really got going. A Blade 400 copy, the infamous Twister Storm 3D was my first heli & I couldn't for the life of me keep flying without crashing the dam thing. I really thought it was only me (which it certainly was early on) and my dumb thumbs. No matter what I could get right on the sim I couldn't translate that to real life.
Then I bought a Logo 400 and it was like chalk & cheese. Holy s&#t batman I could fly it!
I've never looked back & will never go near another clone ever again. And that goes for electronics too, I never buy knockoffs or unknown brands.


Citizen #186

 

Mr Squiggle

What flybarless system do you use?

 

Others convert Assault 700 clone to gasser and have fun and fuel cheap as dirt...

 

Yup I sure can't ignore facts, thats why I have realised that the V-bar is the first consumer rc heli flybarless system. Not align, not AS3X.

Mikado released FBL before align.

Face it, its because of Mikado we know have flybarless.

Clones are just that clones. They are nothing more than copies.

If you feel you need further clarification, drive across the border to Germany with your favourite V-bar clone, go to the Mikado factory, show them your V-bar clone, and give them your so called facts, I am sure they can help you.

 

Mostly VBar (full size and mini) but I also have a Futaba CGY that's about to go onto a Trex 600N as it gets converted to flybarless. I've had a TT GT5 in a Trex 450 and it was ok.


Citizen #186

 

I still own a clone.Trex450. I have replaced most parts for genuine over the years. I also own a genuine Trex450 that I have never put together because the clone hammers the sky.
I started with a Twister 3D pro & suffered many crashes but managed to fly it. My next Heli was a genuine Trex500 & I have never looked back. I fly with Beast X & love the simplicity & performance. (is that a clone?) I won't consider a clone Heli but I wanted a TSA for a while...
Clones good or evil provide diversity, competition & inovation. IMO.

sent from my Lumia 1320wp
using Tapatalk.

 

You get what you pay for .... Simple

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

It is like saying: "because of Ford we now have cars".

False statement.

 

Are you sure?

 

Everything I have ever done in life proves a direct relationship between price and quality
Skateboards, mountain bikes, tattoo machines, ink and needles .. My car, my stereo the scotch I drink, the steak you eat .... God damn off the top of my head I can not think of one product where cheaper is actually better quality ... Perhaps photocopy paper !!!
I will prob never buy a goblin because they are really expensive ... I have bought a hobby king helli and it took me two days to build it because of all the screws that kept stripping, and parts that did not fit ... Flew so badly it crashed on second flight !!!
If these cheaper clone helis are so good why aren't expert pilots flying these in competitions etc ...surely they would appreciate lower crash costs ???? .... You don't even see Blade helis in competitions. Not ragging on Blades, I've owned a couple and they are ok for the price ... But you get what you pay for. ...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

So answer this one, why do we have flybarless controllers in helicopters?

Who pioneered the flybarless system for helicopters?