Islander from San Jose CA in 2004 tried using 2xGY601 on a Raptor90 modified to be flybarless.

http://m.rc.runryder.com/helicopter/t255780p1/

I have no idea if he was the first one. Definitely not Mikado

 

So you have no idea then do you?

Are you Jealous of Germany or something?

 

450 clones are also pretty capable:

 

Not exactly heli related,but This article is well worth a read
http://www.righto.com/2014/05/a-look-inside-ipad-chargers-pricey.html
This is exactly how I picture a clone fbl unit

 

Bottom line is that in every market there are a range of products at a range of price and quality points. It's up to the consumer to decide what to buy. Products that don't meet the market quality vs price test don't sell enough & this fail. Markets also move as customer wants & needs change and this changes the demand dynamics in play which also affects price.
We should be glad we have a choice, but there is no denying that higher quality costs more to produce (everything else being equal).
As the saying goes "you pays your money, you takes your chances".


Citizen #186

 

Just my 2cents worth

One: Quality.
Clone parts vary in quality. But as @utrinque pointed out some are good quality. You have to do your research.

Two: Research and Development
If people who make good components put heaps of time in to design stuff they should be rewarded. There are complaints about the high price but thats because the R+D company load the cost with the prediction they will be copied by clones so try to reap back some profit.

If the innovative companies dont design new stuff then we would still be flying flybar. And if there were no clones, we probably would have better engineered stuff available to us today and probably more companies as well.

So clones are good to obtain existing technology on a budget at the cost of stifling future R+D

 

Author of those photos wrote: "To be careful,don't buy fakes mini Vbar They call it Kbar could used Vbar software , It come from CHINA.."

Viral marketing?

For me they look just awesome quality wise. Soldering is perfect.

 

I would not even look at clones if brand helis were priced reasonably.

Actually sometimes they are e.g. T-Rex 700 DFC combo could be found for $900 or Goblin 700 kit for $600. Brand new, good deals no question about it.

Problem is Minimal Advertised Prices MAP agreements. At launch SAB was selling G700 kits to dealers for $540 when consumer price was $999.

Such agreements are called vertical collusion. In UE this is ILLEGAL.

They can set price exfactory as high as they want but can not fix profit margin for distributors.

For me clones give us idea of real production cost.

We as consumers can decide whom to support.

Are big brands caring about customers or just profits?

If they play fair we play fair.

I have original helis. I have comparison of quality. You know my opinion.

We should share experiences and opinions to make good choices.

At the end of the day those are just our "toys".

Regarding R&D argument I do not buy it. I look at Galaxy Tab S with its awesome technology and can not get why 700 kit cost twice or three times as much.

Materials cost? Look at your fridge or washing machine and compare to your heli.

Mass production you say? Look:

 

Costs incurred from manufacture, R&D Obviously need to be redeemed. Products are rarely sold for their value they are sold at market estimates. What people will pay.
Is Vbar worth the price tag. Of course not.

 

Has anyone ever pulled a KBAR apart and compared it to the VBAR? Do the KBAR come with sensors as well?

 

one of the big costs with a FBL is the sensors used. The VBAR full size I know uses industry grade sensors, which are less sensitive to vibrations, and the method they are mounted/layed also can make a difference. Fro example the spartan VX1e is the same software, and design as the VX1n, except the VX1n has industry grade sensors (same as full vbar/cgy750 etc) and they are laid differently in the case.. I forget which is which... but apparently just the sensor difference increased the price significantly. So while software may be the same, if your using nasty sensors you are in trouble... that said I have no idea what sensors the KBAR etc use. But I believe Mikado took them to court and won...

 

Well I know for a fact due to my recent article on HOW A GYRO WORKS (see article here) , the sensor design is just as critical as the eletronics. Both are crucial. Its like a chain, one weak link can make @Crash Heligod your best friend...

 

Clones are shiz
Who cares? I don’t. I only purchase products that are tried, tested and work. I have seen to many failures of various components that magically have no explanation. Most likely ½ the failures are thumb related or lack of maintenance. While the debate continues there will always be clones, copies. Some good and others we won’t speak of. Aussies quickly weed out the shiz as we are very cautious and don’t particularly want to trial merchandise that seems too cheap The common fact is we all are complaining about COST! To put it simply we can all walk or ride a bike to work but to drive to work in a Bugatti Veyron. To some that’s would seem a bit extreme!
Clones in reality have a definite place in our hobby, my main concern is that if the major manufactures close their doors we will be left with fewer choices. Why is it that the clones or copies of RC products never innovate and make something NEW such as a complete new helicopter? Yes they have tried in their own country but have always failed on the world market. It has NEVER been as cheap to purchase a new current helicopter kit as it was only 15 years ago. Gosh the top of the line MA 50 kit was around the $1600. Now days you can purchase a 700 kit for half that price! It doesn’t matter who does it .No amount of debate will justify who’s right or wrong .Utringue has had good success with the various clones once certain components are swapped out .In a way we should thank the people who test these clones as they ultimately find the ones that are not only reliable and work with the benefit that they are price competitive. While there are some hidden jewels out there from the vast array of products there is also a lot of shiz. I personally being a shop proprietor can’t sell these products to the consumer as I simply do not know as to the reliability and worthiness of these clone products and through various forums gather information like you all. A typical example is the YEG esc a well-known brand and its brother the YEP, both made by the same manufacturer at a very different price. A small defence to the high priced German product is that German law makes the manufacture provide service, spares and back up for their products for a minimum of 5 years , this fact alone makes the high end model helicopter kits like Heinslet stand out of the crowd as I have never heard of complaints such as “it’s so expensive, there are NO dealers, wait more than a month for spare parts ever” Although forever battling with HK products their batteries if your prepared to take a chance do in-fact work with varying degrees of success and if not for their low cost lipo batteries I’m shore the electric revolution wouldn’t be where it is today .The one thing that the majority of RC helicopter modellers have taught me is that cost is by far the most important consideration bar “NONE” Surprisingly at a 3 day event some time past I offered a HK Assault 700 to be built and tested ,the response by the general competitors here in AU was NILL and although the kit was displayed in a prime location at the event the box was only opened once for inspection .This clearly shows that a $240 / 700 FBL HK kit isn’t respected by us ozzies. By the way the HK Assault kit was donated to a modeller who built it for a night flyer and he was and still is very imprest with the model and to this day is his back up day/night basher. I have often wondered WHY such items can be manufactured for these low prices as the CNC machines used don’t lose their precision no-matter where they are built providing good QUALITY control is in place where-as for electronic components which have many varying grades, some of which perhaps were rejected and as we all know could end up in the product YOU purchase. Forums and face-book are a good re-source to shame or promote products, you just got-to be weary of the people who comment there as who made them the experts ? Reputations on forums can take many years to evolve, for all you know it could be a 10 year old giving you his nil-experienced opinion and if written competently is ´BELIEVED! “
To sum up: - Clones & Copies are here to stay forever!
Some clones/copies are good and others just a waste of money!
Forums are a good avenue to vent your experience with various products, just don’t feed us bull-shiz!
Don’t get too serious if others don’t agree with your views, as there is and will only ever be one of YOU!
What’s a fair price for a product? You have to decide!
A good pilot can make a turd fly well!
The most important thing in this hobby is to have FUN!

 

Wow @Fredo that sums it up nicely. Agree with what you have written.

 

Well said @Fredo

 

You can check exactly how many Assault 700 kits were sold in Australia:

http://rcsearch.info/hobbyking/i65135/

At least 10 from AUS warehouse.

 

Show me other source of 4.2 or 4.5kW motor for around $50 except Gartt.

http://www.rcchinamade.com/hf700-ne...s-motor-for-700-align-trex-rc-helicopter.html

They are available also on Hobbyking rebranded to Turingy or at Aliexpress, eBay, etc. They have awesome NMB bearings.

I use 3 of them and two are in 800 helis. I was flying with RJX asymmetric 810mm blades.

4.5kW is newer version I used older 4.2kW.

Compare it to $300-$400 price range for other motors this size.

Keep in mind after rewinding this motor has potential for 10kW.

My friend Danielus became an expert in this. Check photos:

http://www.epheli.pl/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=printview&t=46041&start=15

 

I am so sick of this thread... basically some are good some are shiz pretty much all Need some work..

Get over it... lock the thread or something.. people's opinions are not going to change over this...

 

Check 1:40

 

So he actually rewound his own motors? I could not read the text but did he experience greater power output? So buying cheaper motors and rewinding them by hand. Fascinating....