Look on the bright side, HobbyKing takes Aligns ideas and uses a massive industrial plant of their own and takes Align's profits.

 

Thats very true @HungryHungryHippos .

 

Creativity and innovation is admirable but plagiarism is faster
Simon

 

i thought sab stole the whole fuse idea from align anyway. i think the black shark fuse pre dates goblins. could be wrong though.

 

Good point @Piro-flop , but i think goblin were the first with a square boom which is structural to the helicopter rather than a shell... There are a few differences but i see your point. where do you draw the line? Visually as pointed out prior its hard to see the difference.

 

Blackshark & the hirobo freya go way back ..... years !

 

Why Micro-soft Windows was so popular? They did not copy protect it for years for a reason. Almost became global monopolist. I am so glad Android is becoming close to perfect. It is "free" and "open".

Why Align is not at war with clones... There is some analogy.

Clones become better and better even 450. Look at Tarot. Some say Tarot is owner by Align. It is just gosip but...

I fly 700 and 800 clone but still get parts from Align for them.

Align quality increases year by year and proces are not very composite anymore because they were owning 70% market share in fall of 2013. I am pretty sure they are market leader in more serious models by huge margin still.

Most wise and winning in Align long term strategy is to create "new" models which are company ble with older models. Look at 700, 700L, 700TOP... airframe is the same.

Funny part was promoting DFC over FBL and later again lowered FBL heads over DFC. Each one can be used in any 700 using 12mm main shaft.

Design is so simple that talking about copyights make me think about Xerox which did not patent Computer mouse. Goblin coppied all design solutions from earlier models. Double staje drive trains from TDR, boom from e.g. Align F3C fuselages, belts were used earlier, DFC from Compass. What is innovative about Goblin design? Plastic bolts fixing tail? Strong heavy drive trains? Banshee had it.

In pharma industry patent last for 15 years not forever. That is why we got cheap generics.

Patents used wrong way are dangerous because they slow down progress.

 

I dont fully agree. Without protection of design, no one will continue to innovate. Why bother? Taking other peoples designs and mass producing is a deep set culture in some countries. This retards future development. We dont know if we have reached the pinicle of heli design. But one thing is certain, if manufacturers cant protect their legally defined patents then they just wont bother anymore. Some designs take years of time and effort to build and design. Others not so much. I dont know if goblin have patents but its much bigger than goblin vs the others.

I think that patents protect the people that put in the time and effort to develop new innovation. The definition of what is new and what is not is largely an issue for patent attorneys (another industry all together). Clones - if they are legal - help keep pricing competitive. If you go to much towards clones, no one will bother with new designs. If you go to much towards patents costs will increase too much. Its a balancing act.

 

It is an unfortunate fact of life that innovative technologies have been and will always be copied by competitors of a given market. We've seen the same practices over the years in the automotive industry, where one make will pioneer a new technology, and within a year or two or less, other makes follow suit until the new tech is being used in all makes and models. By the same principal, nearly all new helis are FBL now, nearly all the good radios are 2.4gHz with some form of spread spectrum coding, brushed d.c. motors are basically obsolete now, and its all by way of innovation and subsequent copying. It's a shame that someone always ends up loosing as technology makes progress.

 

There is strong movement against patents in some circles. Type in Google: "against patent case" or "patent troll"



I think debate on patents is not "black and white", "good and evil", there is grey area.

Check this discussion:
http://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/t753932p1/

SAB was facing patent issues:
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=371582
http://www.helifreak.com/showpost.php?p=3433471&postcount=8

From my perspective this is good example of patent trolling: "ingenuity flows throughout the Goblin, taking shape in the patent pending horizontal servo mounting system".

Which one was first?:


https://www.aeaweb.org/atypon.php?return_to=/doi/pdfplus/10.1257/jep.27.1.3

 

The only unethical thing about Align is to sell 550, 600, 700 and 800 copters with bad servos and to stay calm about that issues till somebody gets killed.

 

Align brand on servos does not mean they make them. In the past they rebranded probably Savox.

I do agree servos in combos are not the best.

MKS servos failed on me.

Kontronik ESC fail sporadicaly

TDR fails also.

I will not mention Goblin, OK? : )

We have fun sharing good and bad news.

Crucial issue is to keep forums free from manufacturers bias.

We like to abuse our helis. It is also important factory. 700 and 800 can fly 3D with 120A ESC. Align decided to put 160A to 700 because many 120A were fried by users flying high RPMs.

New versions of Align 700 have stronger servos.

Why bother if there are awesome, cheap KST servos?

 

Im actually talking about the new Bl815H and the Bl855H servos. Its not important who makes them. Align is selling them as high end equipment for their birds.

If you take a look around you will find many problems with these servos in some forums. My own experience - first of a burned GPro. Then two burned Bl855H tail servos. One in programming mode with GPro, one just a few seconds before a flight with BeastX. Doublewired 2S pack was used to power them.

Is it ethical to kill myself with that 700 blades just because they have some electrical issues they try to keep under their carpet?

Now I have a 1,7 grand heli and 1 grand 6s lipos catching dust because I have no shop in a circle of 500 km and nobody wants to replace anything more.

And Im getting answers from Align like - we are sorry to hear about that, contact your shop.

Im realy pissed off because I saved that money for a long time to have some fun this summer and now that.

By the way: check out this guy - he knows what Im talking about

Align? NEVER AGAIN! Not even a bearing or something.

Kind regards,

Iggy

 

Especially bearings! In local hardware shop you will get good quality bearings 3 times cheaper than from Align.

 

Well, this is good to know. An unfortunate reality here in Oklahoma City is that there are only two shops here. The small one only carries a small line of Blade helis and parts. The bigger shop carries mostly HH brands and Align products. This is a limiting factor for me as I like to be able to buy parts locally as well as to help support the two remaining LHSs of the 6 we had years ago.
I gather from what I'm reading here is that if I were to go with Align (not likely) that I would be best off to get a bare-bones kit and outfit the thing with better aftermarket electronics and other vital components. Right? Due to current budget constraints, I'm still limited to running the little Blade helis I have, but at least I can get parts on a "same day" basis and have good support from HH. If If Align is as careless about QC and support as what I hear, I won't attempt to find out for myself. I trust what I read here, as most members of this forum seem to have a "no nonsense" attitude in what they report here.

 

Hey, sometimes you get a lemon. It blows that you have one @iggy , I personally had an align 450 and 550 (v2), and I can honestly say they were great, the 550 especially, loved it. It sounds like align need to do better QA/QC on their kits / components, and they need to proactive enough to fix customer issues when they arise. On a brighter note, I'd look at the Chronos, saw one in action at the hands of @MickyD , and it was awesome, the heli is a great simple design and has that ultra quality feel to it as well. And you can use your 1k of lipos on it too, it's a win-win. Maybe @MickyD can put some pics of the head / frame etc so you can see what it's like.
Simon

 

@Beaver look, Align has some quality diferences in their shipping outputs. My 500 works great, my 700 not. My friends 550 works great, his 450 not. So... A barebone kit ok. Motor and Castle ESC (if it has enough Amps) ok. But servos - use a hammer so nobody gets hurt.

@simon seems like every third Align heli has problems. Probably to much. The Compass is realy hot. But I think I will go with mikado because of the spare and tuning parts available.

 

Why buy combo with $150 servos?

Those rebranded KST servos work in my two 800s flawlesly for year and a half:

$57.59 Turnigy TGY-BLS805MG HV Digital Brushless Servo w/Alloy Case (760us pulse width) 7.5kg/.039sec/68g

$53.43 Turnigy TGY-BLS815MG HV Digital Brushless Servo w/Alloy Case 20kg/.07sec/68g

I out 805 tail servo in all my bigger helis except X5 which has BK servo. I am not happy with BK because it does not initialise properly very often. After powering up it does not work. I have to disconnect lipo and connect it again and it works.

It could be related to CC Power BEC PRO 20A but I do not think so...

 

They are nice for sure, a beautiful bit of kit. You'll love it and you have gone high end.

Simon