There are some clone parts that are just a good as the original (I am sure they are out there) but for me cheap clone parts on an otherwise expensive heli just doesn't make sense. Why risk a good heli with a cheap part?
Most of the stories I have heard around this topic are: buy a clone, fly it once then spend the cost+ of the brand name kit changing parts it to have it fly properly.
Cheap clone blades are something I just wont touch - far too much risk of a failure.

 

Oh yes I believe that @Piro-flop could fly a HK heli very well. But for me when I am really slamming a heli, I have enough trouble trusting even good quality hells not to let fly or break something.

When i flew my Black Angel I absolutely caned it... but it was only 450 size. I didn't think anything would fly better. But now i have flown better i find that the better heli actually costs me less because it rarely breaks. A catch 22 I suppose.

 

One of the things I've noticed over the years is the longer you fly, the better you get, the less you crash, you appreciate and need better equipment. I'm still a fan of clones for beginners.

 

There are numerous problems with Big Brand helis. Does it hurt the hobby?

Companies and distributors care about bussiness and profits. Spend a lot on advertising. Some companies play unfair. We have seen Scorpion vs Align, Real Flight vs Phoenix wars. MAP minimal advertised prices are illegal in many countries including whole EU. It does not stop companies to force them. Forums are censored. Threads showing poor quality dissapear from forums which get cash for advertisements.

Look at threads regarding 700 and 800 clone electric helis on Helifreak and compare views numbers with other threads.

Pilots care about reliability and true objective information.

From buyers perspective competition is bleasing.

Not all clones are great. Pilots would not look at clones if prices of brand helis were reasonable. Prices of new helis inflate fast. Look at Align DFC combo. Discounts for older versions reach $600-$800. Goblin 700 price dropped from MAP $999 to $650 during Christmass.

Buy wise, research, share your findings.

Check this:
http://www.helifreak.com/showpost.php?p=5966540&postcount=108

 

That pilot is my mentor and mate @Piro-flop I spoke with you on HF about his machine

hobbyking assault 700 3d:

 

He can show off this clone much better than me.

Considering low prices of some discontinued Align 700 DFC combos buying 700 clone is not as attractive anymore. Actually I probably put more cash in my Gartt.

Here you can find links to cheap combos:
http://www.helifreak.com/showpost.php?p=5966665&postcount=124

I can not understand why decent 700 class heli naked kits cost 1 grand. I built many helis and there is no sophisticated design nor technology. We will probably wait for usage of low weight ceramic mamatrix composites, titanium, kevlar-CF composites for years if not decades.

If company is making profit selling 700 clone kit for around $200 it at least gives us some clue about manufacturing costs of Big Brand helis.

 

Very interesting perspective @utrinque . There is some truth in what you say. I think though the development costs and staffing costs etc push the price of brand name helis higher where as clones are generally copied of existing designs and produced in china where threre are less staffing costs. Usually the clones come about because they have been copied from a manufacturer producing goods in china trying to make extra profit. I also think the helicopter industry would be a hard business to compete in....

 

You are right Miniature Aircraft is gone.

On the other hand SAB was selling Goblin kits to distributors for $540 while end price was $999. MAP regulated that they can not sell it cheaper.

Threads about it were deleted from HF. I was banned for monts for mentioning this.

Enduser price of this KX018E14 combo was around $1500, now you can get it for $400:
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=636395
Compare:
http://www.alignrcusa.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=2488

I assume this vendor is making profit selling it for $400. Another one is selling it for $350!

http://www.diytrade.com/china/pd/11971561/Align_T_REX_700E_DFC_Super_Combo_KX018E14.html#

Do you catch my drift?

Mikado was selling Vbar for $475. Now you can get it for $220. Chinese sell clone for less than $30 on eBay.

Usually price has nothing to do with real value:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price#Price_and_value

Lets add taxes and intercontinental cost of shipment to this equation...

I do not buy R&D cost argument.

Truth about forums:
I am banned from epheli Polish forum where I was moderator.

Check those two threads:
http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.pl&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://www.epheli.pl/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=printview&t=42669&start=0&usg=ALkJrhjv_nmm2qn9YkV5JLHhgVLl5knLRg

http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.pl&sl=pl&tl=en&u=http://www.epheli.pl/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=printview&t=44027&start=135&usg=ALkJrhjekYzlxNuImCSYNUB7TDcJOwknAA

 

Yes good points. I think that sort of thing translates accross many industries and different products as well. Some moreso than others.

 

Problem with truth is... it is subjective, relative, biased, easy to manipulate. It is not good when becomes obsession. People start to fight and become rude.

I can be wrong but you seem to be/are friendly, empathic and open minded. I like it.

I do not care anymore. Sometimes the best way is to keep my mouth shut.

I had fun with clones. I'll keep them. I fly them more often than Align 600 EFL PRO and Gaui X5.

Some prefer to setup a heli exactly according to the manual. Others like to experiment, stretch, modify. Both ways are ok. This is just hobby.

 

Diytrade is a scam website, its a huge scam network.

If someone did place and order, and paid money, they would most likely get some response such as "you will send you the tracking number in a few days" only to be never heard of again.

I buy the R&D cost argument, you would have needed several good software engines, hardware engineers, someone who specialise in digital signal processing, an expert in aerodynamics / physics with rotational dynamics at the least. That costs money.

Next you would have needed a data acquisition system to capture vibration data, analyse it and design filters the separate vibration from dynamic movement, the brains to do that costs money.

Well yes, the mini v-bars are cheaper, full sized are still much more expensive.

The full sized v-bars have not been cloned, only the mini v-bars.

No one sticks a cloned v-bar on any large helicopter of value, they only use them on small 450's. No one trusts clone v-bars enough, I have not seen one person use a clone for a large helicopter of value.

Clones are just that, a copied product because the people making the clones did not have the brains to come up with the original product.

Could you we please see the British English version of these? With proper grammar.

As soon as I hear sob stories such as this I am skeptical.

 

Actually DIYTrade is a platform. Question is if seller is scammer? I do not know. Here is what buyer should do to be safe:
http://www.diytrade.com/china/about/fraud/Prevent_Online_Fraud.html

Best protection is to pay by PayPal, never money transfer.

I respect your opinion.

I do. I have them in two 800s and few 700 helis. Please check thread on RCGroups (377 pages):
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1889962&page=377

This is Polish forum, translation by Google it is all I have.

Check my videos at:
vimeo.com/utrinque
www.youtube.com/user/utrinquep

I am just average pilot.

Here are my threads in English (sorry I am not a native speaker):
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=584038
http://helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=489222

This thread is particularly interesting:
http://helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=489222

 

There are lots of ways to 'justify' a price: R&D, Advertising, Overhead,... In my opinion interesting discussions but pointless. I promise you the owners are telling sales, "charge as much as you can."

 

Compare:
HK600GT plastic canopy $4 Actually I use it in 600, 700, 800.
Gobin 700 canopy $95

HK600GT CF frame two halves $28 I use it in 600 and stretched 700
Goblin 700 CF frame two halves $95

Gartt 700 530kV 4.2kW motor $48
Align 700MX $178
Align 850MX $350

TGY 815 HV BL servo $56 (rebranded KST, my favourite)
Align BL700H $166

YEP 180A HV $200
Kontronik 200A HV $800

etc.

Pointless?

I would prefer to fly Top Brands but Logo 600 crash can cost $1100:
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=637996

 

Ahhh yes, clones are good.

Stealing other peoples ideas is good.

Intellectual property theft and knock offs are good.

Its great to steal other peoples ideas when its off benefit.

But when someone steals your ideas, its time to get severely offended and its suddenly the biggest wrong in the world.

How many times have I seen the scenerio in a work place where someone gets angry, because someone stole their ideas.

I have no problem with clones, when they are made under license and permission, but when you get old made HK and Fubar / K-Bar doing what they did, its not very ethical.

 

Well I can buy a HK600, or I can save for a goblin 570 , I think I'll keep putting the pennies away, I know what I want
Simon

 

All politics aside if it where not for clones a lot of people would not be in the hobby at all... After years of experience, I'd say most clones are not worth the money they cost.. but if they where not for them in the first place i would not have gotten into the hobby and the same can be said for a lot of people i know, so in a roundabout way they help the hobby .. If it was not for the clones i would not have spent at least 20k on this hobby with buying the brand name stuff, now i know better.. Still ... in saying all that, i'm all for clones as it helps the hobby and generates sales for the brand name manufactures in the long run. I still advise people to this day to buy brand name first if they can afford it.. if not get a clone as it gets them hooked, I do point out why they are not very good from a general quality point of view ect ect.. but not everyone has a tone of cash to spend to get into the hobby ..

 

$3000+ crash:
http://www.helifreak.com/showthread.php?t=638348

 

Not sure how it's relevant to the topic ?

 

I think @utrinque is saying why crash a 3000 when you can crash a clone for 300.. But I think that clones help drive prices down but i also think its not a good thing to rip off someone elses design. There will allways be clones - there are good clones and crapy clones but from what i seen, when parts fail they usually put original parts in the clone. So slowly the clone changes to abrand name heli. Not in every case but many. But in conclusion i think clones have some good points for the consumer re price point of view and learning but bad points for the companies who orignated the design. So its a catch 22.